Not for the Paint of Heart
Season 1, Episode 12
Our very own Allie Joy is sharing another of her bad (art) therapist stories! Allie was having a breakthrough session with a very reserved young client by splattering paint on a canvas, only to later realize that the paint had covered the entire studio space, as well as her client and herself. We will hear how the client’s mom reacted when she walked in, how Allie was able to find humor in the moment, and the clinical decision-making behind the messy masterpiece.
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Episode Transcript - Not for the Paint of Heart
Kathryn Esquer 00:04
So Allie, it is just us today.
Allie Joy 00:14
I know we had some minor, well, major technical hang ups today with our recordings. So we decided that so that there's no stress, or anything with our guests, we're gonna do a story that I'm going to share.
Kathryn Esquer 00:45
Yeah, I cannot wait to hear more. I already know you're a bad therapist. So I can't wait to hear more about it. But before we do, just a friendly reminder that this episode is for entertainment purposes only it is not a substitute for consultation, ethical guidance or therapy itself.
Allie Joy 01:02
And this is episode number 12 of Am I A Bad Therapist? Let's get into it.
Kathryn Esquer 01:08
So, Allie, why are you what's another reason why you're a bad therapist?
Allie Joy 01:13
Well, thankfully, I have a very long list of stories that I can tell just for moments like these when we might need to pull a story out of our pocket. So the story that I'm going to share today is a funny one. So I hope it brings some laughter and humor into your day. Because that's how I deal with my bad therapist moments is I try to laugh at them as much as I can.
Kathryn Esquer 01:35
Love it. So can I take, can I like can you give us some framework is this? You know, where are you? And you were? Where are you in that point in of your career when this bad therapist moment happened? In training or were you already licensed? Practicing art therapy? Or is it more traditional therapy? Set the context for us.
Allie Joy 01:55
Yes. So I was well into my career. So I'm fully licensed as a licensed professional counselor and a registered art therapist. This was in my private practice setting. And this is when I was in the office. So it was pre pandemic, but again, still into my career. And I was in this space that I had, I had to close it just a couple of months ago, unfortunately, but it was a gorgeous space. I was so lucky to be in like this kind of wellness collective that it was a bunch of like minded other professionals that we came together with the vision of having we had a massage therapist, we had sound therapy, we had Reiki, we had traditional clinicians, we had an LADC, so an addiction counselor, I myself was doing art therapy, we have yoga. So it was an amazing space filled with like wonderful wellness, and I was doing art therapy there.
Kathryn Esquer 02:49
I need to jump in. Can you tell us more about this? Who's How did you find it? How did you get connected with these providers? This sounds magical. And not only do I want to work in one, I want to go to one.
Allie Joy 03:00
Yes. So it was one of those moments where it felt like the stars were aligning. So I was working in a behavioral school program. And it was very challenging. And I decided I wanted to leave at the end of the school year because we had just a lot of differences between what the program model was and what the school expected and understood, and then what the district wanted. So there was just people were not on the same page, and I decided to start looking for jobs. So I had previously worked in a school district in a magnet school. And I reached out to he was the director of health services at the time when I worked at the previous school, just to say like, Hey, would you mind writing me a letter of recommendation, I'm on the job hunt. I decided I want to change. And I had left. Well, I had gotten laid off from that school. So I didn't want to leave. So we left on really good terms had a great relationship. And he was like, Oh my gosh, Allie, this is so funny that you're reaching out to me because my wife and I want had this idea where we want to start this kind of wellness like, collective like we're we're all our own businesses, but we share spaces to have this space for clients. And he was like, Would you be interested in joining us?
Kathryn Esquer 04:15
That's amazing. Yeah, you never know when doors are gonna open.
Allie Joy 04:20
Exactly. And I was a little bit nervous, making that jump into private practice full time because I was doing private practice part time, like after school hours. So luckily, I already was paneled with some insurance companies. I already had my paperwork and things. It was just making that jump. But the timing was also perfect because I was on summer break. So I was still getting paid, because I had my paycheck spread out throughout the whole year instead of just the school year. And I was like I think this is the time to make that jump into private practice because I had a little bit of a cushion for paychecks where I could build up my caseload and then not have a huge gap in pay. So like I had said, this opportunity truly felt like the stars are aligning. So this was their idea. It was again a former, he was actually my boss's boss, but we always got along really well. And him and his wife are both counselors. And they had this idea and they wanted someone who did like a creative therapy. So we kind of put our heads together. And we were like, who do we want here. And again, there was a massage therapist on board. Eventually, we had someone doing Reiki, we set up a big conference room that had a table that flipped up. So we did yoga in there, we had sound healing workshops, and then again, other providers came in to So again, it was their kind of big vision. And then I came in and had the time to really help really develop the idea more, because like I said, I was on summer break. So it all kind of came together perfectly. And it was a gorgeous space. I had a whole art studio, I had a play therapy room for doing therapeutic play. And I had an office as well of my own.
Kathryn Esquer 05:58
Oh my goodness, I know. I guess we'll get to what happens. So tell us Yeah, let's jump into what happened in this beautiful space that you were so lucky to be not gifted, but so lucky, the stars align that you had access to and was yours to work with clients. And what else about your bad therapists moment in this collective?
Allie Joy 06:18
So I will say to you again, this opportunity was incredible, because we had the space built out for what we wanted. So it was already a space. But the landlord was willing to work with us on the configuration and things. So I really was able to say this is the art studio, I went in it with a blank canvas, I spent a lot of time decorating like setting the mood. I don't like overhead lights. So we had really nice, like drop lighting. So it was a beautiful space. And I anyone who knows me doing art therapy, I think it's important to kind of have like paint on the tables, because I think if you have a pristine space and a client comes in, they're more worried about making a mess than they are on what they're creating. So I definitely had paint on the tables. And I wasn't too worried about things like that. But so this story, specifically I was working with a young boy, I think he was quite a at the time, between eight and 10. And he was very, very therapy avoidant. He did not want to be there. He did not want to talk. He kind of just had his own thoughts about therapy, but he needed support because he really wasn't verbalizing his feelings, his emotions, what was going through his head. And that was why, you know, the parents wanted him to work with somebody. So eventually, he really did love art therapy. And he started coming to sessions excited for them, which was amazing. But he still wasn't really verbalizing anything. And he really struggled again to name what he was feeling. So I had this idea. I was like, Well, what if we had some fun, and we kind of like fling some colors onto like a canvas or a big piece of paper. And if you pick a color, and tell me why you kind of like why you picked it, what emotion it reminds you of? And he was like, oh, yeah, that sounds really cool. So I set up a bunch of paints, they were kind of watered down a little bit so we could kind of like, you know, get the splatters on. I had. We're working on oops, we're working on like, really big paper. So and for anyone who's not watching the video, sorry, I just hit my mic. But so it was wider, like my arm span of like big paper. I was like, Oh, this is going to be fine. We'll be fine. It was up on an easel. And he starts getting really into it. He's picking colors. He's like, Oh, this reminds me of this emotion, it would like kind of flip it, you know, flinging the paintbrush so it would splatter. And I was really into it too, because he had never ever talked about his emotions this much before ever. And I was like, Oh my gosh, his mom's going to be so excited when we share how the session went. Because we usually had her come in like later half of the session, because he wanted his mom to come in second half and kind of share you know what we did. So that's kind of where it started.
Kathryn Esquer 09:08
Wow. So and correct me if this is in your this is in your art therapy room. Yeah. And so the vibe in general, you said is you don't want it to be a clean, pristine place. But here you are actually flinging paint in this beautiful, you know, art therapy room, which has art supplies and some paint. But you know you're in this collective space that you share with other wellness practitioners. So can you get super into it? I totally hear you on when a client finally starts when something starts clicking with a client. Like yeah, we get into it. It's really really energizing and rewarding work so I can see where you would totally get into it. So what I'm glad he responded well to flinging of pain but what happened next?
Allie Joy 09:52
So I'm sure you can guess we maybe got a little bit too into it, where I didn't want to pull back and I really didn't want to ask him to like kind of slow down. Because again, this was a really pivotal moment in our therapeutic journey. And I worked with him for a few years after too. And I really can pinpoint that this was truly a turning point for us in therapy. So I did not want because I kind of noticed I was like, Oh, I think the paint is flinging a little bit more than we want it to. But I was so invested in where he was at that I did not ask him to pull back. I was helping him I was flinging paint too, because again, it was like he was laughing. He was talking. We were really connecting. And then we had kind of like our set time where the mom would come knock on the door. And that would be her time to come in. So we're really going for it. Mom knocks on the door, and we kind of like look up, and mom opens the door. And I see her face is like, huh, Hi. Wow, like, what are you guys doing?
Kathryn Esquer 10:56
You can see it's like you were two kids caught in like your hands in the cookie jar, like getting into trouble, mom knocks on the door. And you guys are making a huge mess.
Allie Joy 11:07
Yes. So I really had not realized how much of a mess we were making. So I was really focused again on like the big paper and our conversation. And when mom kind of had the face I like looked around the space. And all of the walls were covered in paint. And he and I were covered in paint, as well.
Kathryn Esquer 11:33
So how did you? How did you What did you say? How did you recover? I have so many questions. Yes.
Allie Joy 11:38
So in that moment, genuinely, I was like, oh my god, am I a bad therapist? Did I just make a huge mistake? Because all the paints I use are waterbased. So they're gonna wash off. So I knew that. But at the same time, her face and like was not she wasn't angry. She was like, what is happening here? So I was like, well, we're having fun. We're laughing. And I was like, and I you know, usually asked him to share, you know what we're doing. And he was so invigorated and excited. And he was telling his mom about the colors that he picked in the emotions. And you know, mom just jumped right in with us, which was really great. And so we it wasn't like a bad moment. No one was angry or upset. But it was that momentary panic of like, oh my gosh, did I go too far, because I really love breaking down those walls in therapy and having a lot of fun and laughter because I think so much healing can come from laughter. And I love to incorporate that into sessions. But I really did have that moment of like, oh my gosh, did I go too far.
Kathryn Esquer 12:47
And it sounds like that moment didn't happen until the mom came in having that third set of eyes. From a perspective outside of what was actually happening in that art therapy moment was like kind of viewing it from an outsider's lens and be like, Oh, does this look weird? How does this seem? But in the moment it felt so right. And clinically, you knew you're on point?
Allie Joy 13:09
Yes, exactly. And I guess because I wasn't too worried about it in the moment, because I was just I definitely didn't realize how much paint was going everywhere, first of all, but then I was like, I will just wipe it off. No big deal. Like it'll be totally fine. So it ended up going totally fine. You know, again, mom came in and she ended up helping us like we kept going because they really didn't want to break the work that was happening. And it was one of truly one of the best sessions with this family. I can still remember to this day, because mom again, she after that momentary shock. She did just jump right in. We had such great conversations. It also was beautiful, which I'm not always focused on a final product with art therapy its about the process. But it was really like a big like just collage of color, essentially because we were again, we were really flinging it was like and we were using watercolors too. So it was really pastel it had like lots of layers. And he was again, this was probably one of the first times that this client was able to really verbalize his emotions and how he was feeling and associating colors with his emotions, which I talk a lot about in art therapy and therapeutic art making. So after the session, I remember I was wearing like a denim shirt, and there's paint splatters all over it and the walls were splattered in paint. And again, I told her it was going to wash off, you know, it should be dry by now. I think I gave them like a little towel to put in the car. Because I'm not kidding. We were covered in paint. It was all over our faces too, which I didn't realize either. So yeah.
Kathryn Esquer 14:45
As a neat freak mom, I might have had a heart attack. It didn't dawn on me like having to put a child in my car with paint all over them until you said you gave them a towel. That's really nice of you. But that's my own stuff I have to work through. So, so I want to loop back because I have a question and this, this, I see the implications. Can you talk through some some potential outcomes that this client might have gone through If you had asked him to scale back? What were some potential pitfalls that could have come that you wanted to avoid by kind of embracing and going with this moment?
Allie Joy 15:30
Yeah, I really felt like if I was like, Oh, we have to be careful of the mess we're making, or can you not fling it so much, I felt like he would have shut down in that moment. And I can say, with pretty strong confidence that he would have, because in the past, with other family members, or other students in school where he would start to open up, something would happen, and he would slam those walls down, and he would shut down completely and be nonverbal. And just, you couldn't get him to open back up for quite a while. So I really felt like if I had put any brakes on, he would have just shut down and we would not have been moving forward with the conversation that we were having. Because I think in the past, he again, had tried to open up to people didn't get a great reception of that he felt whether it was embarrassment, or shame or different emotions, and then would again, just completely shut down. And that was his pattern of response. So I really was concerned that if we pulled back, he would just shut down in the session, you know, wouldn't have been as productive as it was, if we just kind of went with it.
Kathryn Esquer 16:34
You would have been, you know, perpetuating that that pattern is life of have reasons to shut down or people who have asked him to shut down. So what was your work like, after this session? What was the next session like? Do you remember?
Allie Joy 16:46
Yeah, so he, again, at that point, he had started to get excited, because when I start art therapy, with a client who is a little bit more hesitant or resistant, I focus so much on rapport building in the beginning, and it's like laid out in my paperwork in my intakes, especially if it's with children, I say to the parents, like, Give me six months, please like trust the process. Trust what I do. I think that spending time to build rapport really leads to great clinical progress. But I asked him to give me that time. So he and I had been focusing on building our relationship and having fun. So he was starting to like moms said he wasn't fighting to come anymore, he would come and energize and asked me what we were doing for our session. So he was just starting to get invested. But after that session, and mom told me, like, when they got home, he was telling his family about it, he couldn't wait to come back to the next session. If I remember correctly, he like, ran in to the next session, and was like, so excited, and ready to do projects. And just after that moment, it felt like he really was excited to come to therapy, which is amazing. That's always the goal. And seeing that is feels amazing.
Kathryn Esquer 18:00
That's incredible. I'm what's happened to the paint, I know paint went everywhere. But the actual target the paper, would you guys do with that?
Allie Joy 18:07
Though, we ended up because it was a really big piece of paper, we ended up cutting it in half. And we both kept half. So I hung up half in the studio. And he took half home. And we kind of said like this will be like our, you know, like our like our friendship painting or whatever we called it. Like, we'll both have a half so we can both remember, you know how far we came in this moment. It can remind us to talk about how we feel. And he seems like really invested in that too.
Kathryn Esquer 18:33
That's incredible. And did you still have it?
Allie Joy 18:37
I do! Of course I do. I keep all of our the artwork. With art therapy, we do have regulations anyways, that we have to maintain client artwork. But even without that I would anyways because it's so special to me. So I do have, it was hanging in my office until until I just closed it a couple of months ago, it will be in my new office that I will be opening. But I still have it in my home office. It's kind of tucked away now because I don't have enough wall space in here. But it will be in my future office too.
Kathryn Esquer 19:06
I can't wait I want to see can you share pictures of client artwork as a non art therapist, I do not know that. I want to just say I would love to see him but I don't know that is that.
Allie Joy 19:16
Yeah, so in all of my intake documentation, I do have an option like in a waiver for clients to sign if they're okay with their artwork being shared, whether it's it's always non identified, there's no names anything like that, but I still ask to make sure they're okay because I'll say like maybe I might share it in a group I might share it with you know, in a supervision I might post a picture of like a compilation of artwork you know, like on different social media so I give them the option to either be okay with that or decline it but this client was okay with you know, sharing their artwork and things like that so I can definitely share a picture.
Kathryn Esquer 19:50
That's incredible. So okay, so client is left energized excited to come back to therapy mom's okay with this mom totally sees it and probably get seems like what what's the aftermath of your office and you?
Allie Joy 20:05
Yes. So I will say to you, I always do warn parents of like, you know, we are going to be doing artmaking it can get messy. So have them come in clothes you're okay with washing your up, you know, things like that. So again, they knew like and he you know, it was like an eight year old boy. So he was like running around outside like getting dirty all the time. So mom really like, was totally fine. With that I did have to work the rest of my day in a paint covered shirt, but it kind of like fits my vibe. So no one really even blinked at it. And it's funny too. So I still have that shirt. And the paint is supposed to be washable. splatters are still on that shirt, but I still wear it because I actually love it.
Kathryn Esquer 20:40
I need to see a picture of the shirt.
Allie Joy 20:44
It was watercolor. So it's not like super bright. Like it's kind of just like a fine splatter of paint. I'll post a picture too. And I'll share it on our socials when this episode airs. So and I do still I think I have pictures of the office too. But so I remember that. I don't think it was that day because I probably had a full day of clients. But let that week I tried to, like take a wipe or a magic eraser to wipe the walls because also I remember the, you know, my previous boss, who I now is, you know, working with. I remember he came in to like, ask me a question. And he kind of looked around and was like, Oh, wow, like, there's a lot of paint on the walls. I was like, Oh, it's okay. It's washable. It was a great session. And he I run it, he actually saw one of the siblings. So we have releases signed, we collaborated a lot. So I was you know, he knew the situation. I was like we had a really groundbreaking session. And he just kind of laughed. So I tried to take a wipe to it. We think that when the space was being redone, the landlords didn't use great paint on the walls. It wasn't like a gloss paint.
Kathryn Esquer 22:02
Do you think they just primed it and didn't put paint on?
Allie Joy 22:06
I think so, the paint didn't come off.
Kathryn Esquer 22:08
So the oh my gosh, the primer just like sucks up the color. Yeah, don't put paint like colored paint on top. So literally, I would assume this is also coming from someone who's in the middle of house renovations. Which you and I have talked about, yes. The walls were primed, and you literally like threw watercolors at it. And it totally stuck. Because that's what primer is supposed to do. That's so funny.
Allie Joy 22:34
Yep. So I in that moment, I remember I was like trying to wipe it and it was it was like starting to like smudge a little bit, but it wasn't coming off. And I was like, okay, okay, so it's not going to come off right now. That's fine, that will be a later me problem. I'm not going to worry about it. Because again, I you know, whenever I have an art studio, if I get a new table, I intentionally put paint on it, I have my clients get paint on it, because I really feel like it holds them back if the space is too clean. So I was like it's not that big of a deal for you know, it's an art. Luckily, again, it was an art therapy room and art therapy studio dedicated to art making. So wasn't the worst thing. It wasn't like it was in my, you know, little more formal office. But again, it still kind of matches my vibe. So I don't think it would have been that bad. But so it wasn't the worst. But when I had to close the office a few months ago, my husband and I ended up having to completely repaint the room before we left.
Kathryn Esquer 23:34
Oh my gosh. Now, was it your choice to repaint it? Or did you have to repaint it?
Allie Joy 23:40
We had to I know we were leaving the space. Because just COVID really threw a wrench in our model that we were utilizing. And a few clinicians had to leave, you know, a whole bunch of complications. So we ended up letting the office go. Even though we maintained it through the worst of COVID We ended up having to say goodbye to that space. And because we were like leaving the space completely. We had to leave it ready for a new tenant. So I did end up we ended up and luckily my husband Austin did help. But I remember it still was a nice moment though because I was reflecting on that session years later. And kind of just really smiling and laughing about it even though we had to take that extra time to paint it. It was worth it because it still and even today just sharing it that story is one of my favorite moments from therapy. Even though I had that panic moment of am I a bad therapist that I make a mistake did I not make that right judgment call. Now after that moment, I still so many years later can laugh genuinely and feel like there was such progress made but the clients so even though it was that extra step of work of having to repaint multiple coats to cover it. It was still worth it.
Kathryn Esquer 24:53
I love that,Allie
Allie Joy 24:54
Thanks! I figured it would be a good one to share because I think it really highlights in the moment We have to make quick judgment calls often in the work that we do. And sometimes, no matter how much prep work you have, no matter how much experience you have, sometimes after you make a clinical choice, you have that panic moment of like, oh my gosh, did I make the wrong decision? Did I do the wrong thing? Am I a bad therapist, but I think for me, that moment showed that it's okay to, again, kind of break that wall. Sometimes it can be okay to have fun, it can be okay to laugh. And you can have really good moments come from that. Oh, my gosh, did I make the wrong choice?
Kathryn Esquer 25:32
I couldn't agree more, which is exactly why we started this whole podcast. Yeah. So thank you so much for sharing another one of your moments, and I'm sure I will be on coming up soon where I have to share more of mine, we know I have plenty to share as well. Maybe not as colorful, colorful as yours. But thank you Allie.
Allie Joy 25:55
of course. And again, if I and I'll say we usually do a wrap up of if I could say anything to another clinician. And if you are doing art making, so we don't forget, again, if you're doing therapeutic art making, I would say if you choose to bring any creativity into your clinical practice, do that prep work of telling the clients and the parents just in case things might get messy, I would say prep your space, if you don't have a dedicated room, because you never know what's going to happen. art making is very unpredictable. So I would say keep that in mind, do the prep work. You know, maybe lay down some things if you need to, or go outside if you have the ability to but also lean into it because so much clinical progress can be made through those spontaneous moments through having fun. I think sometimes people expect therapy to be so serious. And that's why in the beginning of the work that I do, especially with parents and families, I really try to explain of like trusting the process. It doesn't have to it definitely can be serious, and there are serious moments, but there can be progress and healing from having fun. And I would encourage clinicians to lean into that, you know, if you feel like it's appropriate for your client, don't pull back because you think you have to fit this mold of what being a therapist is. I think clients are changing so much in general, young and old, like any age, and different approaches can be very beneficial and very clinically appropriate. So I would say lean into the fun. Absolutely. Well, thank you for listening, everybody. I can't wait for you to hear more of our stories.
Kathryn Esquer 27:27
Yes, yes, we'll see you next week